For People with Bishop Rob Wright
For People with Bishop Rob Wright
#9 We Believe!
Faith isn't something we own; it's something we steward to others. In Luke 18:1–8, Jesus teaches us about the persistent widow who kept knocking until a weary judge relented. Her courage becomes our template for a faith that endures indifference, resists despair, and stays tender without giving up. We talk about hope as the engine of perseverance, how small acts compound into movements, and why faith gains its richest colors when life runs hot and hard.
In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright have a conversation about perseverance. Together, they unpack a countercultural claim: perseverance is community property. When your trust is thin, you can borrow mine; when I’m weary, I may need yours. From singing each other back to courage to telling honest stories that spark imagination, we show how public witness—bold yet gentle—invites others in. This conversation reaches into the public square, naming dignity for every person, resisting dehumanization, and calling for peace with justice that allows neighbors to flourish together. Perseverance becomes a daily posture: steady, hopeful, and communal—rooted in love that refuses hate’s heavy load. Listen in for the full conversation.
Read For Faith, the companion devotional.
Faith is not my personal possession, but am I being a good steward of the faith that the Holy Spirit has entrusted in me? In other words, will people see me and want to trust God more because of some little bit I did or said? My story of faith is community property. I mean, in appropriate ways, because if I tell my story of persevering in God, someone else could be encouraged. Maybe their imagination will be expanded, maybe their heart will be broadened.
Melissa:Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright. A conversation inspried by Bishop Wright's For Faith weekly devotional. I'm your host Melissa Rau. You can find a link to this week's For Faith and a link to subscribe in the episode's description. Over the last nine weeks or so, Bishop has been framing his devotion through the lens of what we believe. And he named this week's devotion, We Believe in Perseverance, inspired by Luke chapter 18, verses 1 through 8. Bishop.
Bishop Wright:Yeah, thanks, Melissa. This week I want to talk about perseverance. We believe in perseverance. Faith in general is good, but faith in the face of obstacles, hardship, and rejection is better. That is the point, I think, of Jesus' story about the woman who knocks on the door until the grumpy judge grants her plea. Like the black moral mushroom, an edible mushroom and delicacy that grows in massive quantities only in areas scorched by wildfires, there is an aspect of faith that only thrives when the environment is difficult, even hostile to faith. The faith that the world needs today is a faith that keeps knocking despite the world's indifference.
Melissa:Well, goodness gracious bishop. So that sounds like persevering. We have to persevere despite things being stacked up against us.
Bishop Wright:Yeah, I mean I think I think one of the best ways to see the all the colors available uh in faith is to is to trust, uh, is to sort of see faith in God stretched out over time and stretched out over uh ups and downs. Uh, then I think we get a mature sense of what faith actually is. And it is true that one aspect of faith, the Bible tells us this, and our own experience tells us this, is that uh faith's most colorful colors actually are revealed when we are faced with hardships, obstacles, rejection, where perseverance, you know, is required, where we have to hold on, as the as the old song says, hold on to God's unchanging hands. It is not to give in to despair. Uh, it is not to be a slave to doubt. Those seasons of doubt come uh in any normal faith life, but it is to realize that we're going to go forward in God, which means we're gonna have to hold on until we get our next set of assignments in God, so to speak.
Melissa:So, Bishop, what would you say the relationship between hope and perseverance are?
Bishop Wright:Oh, yeah. Well, hope is the driver of perseverance, right? So our hope is that, and you know, sort of colloquially said, if God isn't dead and we have no, we have no knowledge that God is dead, that God is still alive and thriving, then we have every good reason to hope. So, and and hope just means believing that God is real, able, good, and generous, and that God is not asleep, as the Bible says, and that God has something to say to us even now. This is why faith in community is critical. Left to our own devices, uh, we miss opportunities uh to be cross-fertilized by other people's faith. Sometimes when I've been weak in faith or I had my legitimate doubts, or even when we're just weary, I was uh regenerated, encouraged, uh, and uh, you know, and was able to move forward because someone lent me their faith. Someone's sort of buoyancy uh came and gave me some buoyancy. So perseverance is not something that we have to generate all by ourselves. Uh, perseverance is something that is the property of the community. So when it comes to the matter of perseverance, sometimes we're in the lending business and sometimes we're in the receiving business.
Melissa:Can you unpack that just a little bit?
Bishop Wright:Well, what I mean by that is that uh sometimes we find ourselves in a season of joy, um, of contentment. Um uh maybe uh we have had some sort of recent winning in God, so to speak. The stars are aligning and all is well with our souls. And and we know that we know that we know that trust is where we should be in God. And sometimes we may encounter someone who's in a different season. They may be in a season where they're depleted, they're weary, uh, doubt is taking them over, despair is knocking at their door. And so uh it may be our season to lend our faith, to encourage. As I've said on this podcast before, I think when I was the senior pastor of a congregation, I used to encourage my congregation to sing uh and uh you know, sing with their full throat because you never know who's sitting beside you. Uh, maybe during the week previous, they've had their song beat out of them because of life or circumstances, bad news from the doctor. I mean, you just name it. And so, and what I said to them was is that if it's your week to sing with your full throat, uh, you do that knowing that someday down the road, it may be their turn to sing you into faith, right? And so uh perseverance is not something we have to sort of uh figure out ourselves. We don't have to sort of muscle it up and all that sort of thing. It's a grace. Uh it it is uh it's cyclical, um, it's about the community's dynamic. Um, but nevertheless, the end result is the same. It's about trusting God over a season, particularly of hardship, rejection. I mean, this is why the story Jesus tells is so important. Uh, and it's a it's a comical story. The the group the judge uh whose door she knocks at, it says that she's no respecter of person or of God, right? I mean, this was just a grumpy, kind of indifferent kind of fella. Maybe he sat on the bench all day, maybe he heard all kinds of craziness as he adjudicated the law, and he just didn't need any of this foolishness from this woman who would not give up knocking. She knocked nevertheless. And so we distill from that that Jesus is saying something about our posture of faith when it comes, particularly to indifference in the world. And look, a lot of people get overwhelmed by the odds. They say, you know, the systems that are so big and sometimes against us, but what does my little faith matter? Well, it matters an awful lot because our little faith makes room for somebody else's little faith, and so on and so on and so on. And before you know it, uh we have a movement. And so this is absolutely critical for us.
Melissa:Yeah. You know, I just watched Jane Goodall's uh famous last words on Netflix. Holy cow. It was so powerful. So, listeners, if you haven't seen it, I highly encourage you to do so. But talk about grit, right? I think what you just said, Bishop, you talked about the little faith and little faith and little faith. And I think one of the things that Jane Goodall is encouraging folks to do is if we can just do one simple thing, if eight, nine billion of us did one simple thing, exactly, that could create change, right? Exactly. Positive change. So it's just not about giving up. We don't give up.
Bishop Wright:And you know, the other the other part of it too is so so Jane Goodall actually didn't have when she started her journey, uh, she actually didn't have any credentials. She she had a little bit of a burning passion. And then as she went into it, uh, she fell in love with nature, fell in love uh clearly with uh with chimpanzees, learned at their feet. And then she made space for a lot of people uh by her example. And and I think we don't talk about that uh nearly enough, perhaps, uh, you know, in the faith. And that is people watching us be bold and gentle, trusting God in the face of adversity, uh, gives them something enigmatic to think about. And so I always think about faith as not my personal possession, but am I being a good steward of the faith that the Holy Spirit has entrusted in me? In other words, will people see me uh and want to trust God more because of some little bit I did or said or added to the, you know, to the equation? And so it's radically public, this idea of faith. And it's it's um it's sort of malformed when we think about faith as personal. Um it's it's it's actually community property. My story of faith is community property. I mean, in appropriate ways, uh, because um, if I tell my story of persevering in God, someone else could be encouraged. Maybe their imagination will be expanded, maybe their heart will be broadened. Um, you know, uh, we talk about uh shame and guilt that we ought to be on watch for all of that, but then there's something that is actually constructive and positive, and that's called conviction. And so as someone in my midst is being faithful and radically so, I'm in some way convicted, right? In other words, now the words that I say on Sunday are right at the top of my brain. And I'm thinking about, I'm doing a bit of an integrity audit. Am I living that way? And so sometimes we get too quick to guilt and shame where we ought to pause a little bit and say, it is just my bifurcation being showcased here, right? The concessions that I've made, um, the collusion that I'm actively involved in, is that being highlighted? Yes. Uh, because remember, the Holy Spirit's job is never to sort of shame us, condemn us, guilt us, but we have to be brought to intersections where we can decide who do I want to be? What are my ultimate allegiances at this moment? The ultimate allegiance of this widow who knocked on the door was to her cause. There was no doubt about it. She was going to keep knocking on the door. And the judge, who he says he had no respect for God nor for people, he had to submit himself to her perseverance. Now, we can think about all these amazing men and women of the faith who just, whose names we know, the vast majority of them whose names we do not know, who just decided, I'm going to live this way, come what may, hell or high water. And those people, their gentle boldness but moral clarity made the difference for generations after them.
Melissa:Yeah. Bishop, I read the last line of this passage and it was kind of chilling. Um, it was Jesus' words. Uh, it says, I tell you, uh, he taught he's talking about listen to what the unjust, we're gonna do that again. I gotta find it. So the last line says, I tell you, he will quickly grant justice to them. And yet, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth? I mean, absolutely chilling. And so if we don't have perseverance and people just give up, well then what might the Christ find?
Bishop Wright:Yeah.
Melissa:When the Christ returns.
Bishop Wright:There's a there's an old song. I'm thinking a lot about songs today. There's an old song that says, Must Jesus bear the cross alone and all the world go free? Um, and so and so I hear Jesus' voice there um setting an expectation, which is clear, which is, hey, I'm looking for my partners. Where are my partners? And so if we can't think about this any other way, then think about it that way. Must Jesus uh carry the cross alone? And if I'm a friend of Jesus, especially in response to Jesus' friendship offer to me, uh, wouldn't I want to, as best as I can, walk beside Jesus, join him in his purposes, love how he loved, even though we fall and we fail and we stumble, of course we do. Of course we do. But wouldn't I want to just lay claim to the fact that I want to be partner? And according to the story, when Jesus comes back and looks for his partners, I do want to be numbered among them, right? I'm not saying I'm some kind of spiritual super athlete. I'm that's not what this text is about. But it's saying uh my allegiance is such that I want to be numbered on that day. I want to, I mean, this is where I think we really move into a maturity of faith, right? So I'm not externally driven. I'm not believing in Jesus because I don't want to go to hell. So therefore I have a relationship of fire insurance with Jesus, right? Some people have that, right? Which is really driven by fear, or I'm not believing in Jesus for all the good things I'm gonna get, right? And some people have that prosperity gospel mindset. Uh I'm not believing in Jesus because I believe He'll protect me from what it means to be human, sometimes sickness, sometimes all the no, I'm I'm believing in Jesus because that is the way I've decided to live my life, full stop settled. And and that is that is maturity now. It's not based on external drivers, it's internally driven. I have decided that this is my North Star. I have decided this is the direction I'm going. And uh and I have decided that this is my frame to see the world and my neighbor through. And and it that's a beautiful thing, actually. I I love to meet older people these days, uh, and occasionally a younger person who, because of ups and downs in life and all arounds, uh, they have landed. You know, I'm 61 now, and I find that I'm getting clearer about some things, not grumpier, I hope, um, and not cynical and not cantankerous, but you are getting clearer about right and wrong, about how I should treat people, right? I mean, it's not negotiable at some point. At some point, the fact that you have dignity is settled. And that even though we disagree vehemently, perhaps even, that I'm going to treat you with dignity, respect, et cetera. I mean, certain things get settled. And so I think that one of the best indicators of Christian maturity is that this matter gets settled for us. That I'm clear who I am and whose I am, and I'm clear that I'm joining Jesus in Jesus' purposes rather than trying to manipulate Jesus into my purposes. And I think that is the best indicator for Christian maturity.
Melissa:You used a fancy word a little bit ago, conviction.
Bishop Wright:Yeah.
Melissa:And um, there's some etymology of that word that really talks about overcoming.
Bishop Wright:Yeah.
Melissa:And so, you know, one can be convicted and be an absolute bullheaded jerk. And yet you're not talking about that. So we're talking about persevering, but with conviction, not just holding on, but leaning in.
Bishop Wright:Right. Well, Dr. King said, I have decided that hate is too much to bear. He was absolutely convicted that love was the only way to untangle all the mess that we've made of human community. So he was not going to succumb to hate. He's being clear, he's convicted. He's seen the world, he's seen the broadness and the depthness and the depth of our brokenness. And he has decided that hate in no set of circumstances is our appropriate response or is an appropriate response for us who follow Jesus. Right? And so we can lobby, we can march, we can uh we can do our work nonviolently, we can do all those sorts of things. Like the, like the woman, uh the widow at night, we're just gonna keep on knocking because we're gonna keep on knocking because we've decided that knocking the man's door down and taking him hostage is not part of what we do and who we are. So, yeah, the conviction on certain things that you have dignity, that we will persevere in resisting evil. Like the, it's like the baptismal covenant, uh, that uh that we will respect the dignity of every human being. Um, that when we fall into sin, uh we're not trapped in our sins, that we can always repent and return. We're absolutely crystal clear there. Uh we're crystal clear that I am not arbitrary and neither are you. I am not an accident of the universe, and neither are you. In fact, the entire universe is not an accident. That the universe was born of a benevolent, loving mind. We happen to call that mind God. But and that that matters, and if that matters, you matter and I matter, and we should be treated in a certain way. So, yeah, conviction on those principles I think is critical. And convicted on principles like every person in this world and in this nation deserves health care. And every person in this nation uh deserves freedom. Uh, so today we have to say, before we close, uh, we rejoice that the hostages, the 20 or so hostages, uh have been released, uh, the Israeli hostages uh from the hands of Hamas. And we need to rejoice also that there are Palestinians uh who on today have also been released. And we pray to God that uh the conviction of a peaceful and prosperity, uh prosperous going forward for all parties included will be what we're convicted about uh as uh as nations of the world, as great nations. I hope that's what we're convicted about, which is that no more of this terrorism uh and no more of this uh what appears to have been uh almost ethnic cleansing in Gaza, that there's no more of this, um, that we rule it all out of bounds on every side, and that we figure out a way for Palestinians and Jews and all kinds of uh former enemies to live together in mutual peace and mutual prosperity. That actually is the conviction the Bible conveys that all of us would be able to sit under our own vine and fig tree uh and have war no more about us uh and have peace for all of us.
Melissa:Here, here, Bishop. So I guess like Dory and Finding Nemo, we just got to keep on swimming.
Bishop Wright:You know, uh there's a sermon to be preached uh on finding Nemo and on finding Dory. And of course, I love those shows because my kids were little then and we watched them. A lot of wonderful redeeming messages there. Perseverance is knowing what to hold on to uh and uh when to never give up. Uh and uh and Dory told us uh poetically we have to sometimes just keep on swimming. And so I think this is what the uh the widow tells us just keep on swimming and make room for God.
Melissa:Amen. Bishop, thank you, and thank you, listeners, for listening to For People. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Bishop Rob Wright, or by visiting www.forpeople.digital. Please subscribe, leave a review, and we'll be back with you next week.