For People with Bishop Rob Wright
For People with Bishop Rob Wright
#2 We Believe
What happens when our religious rules collide with human suffering? In Luke 13, Jesus heals a woman on the Sabbath despite religious opposition. Jesus' act models the need to push beyond the status quo.
In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright have a conversation that invites us to examine how our own spiritual boundaries might be limiting our capacity for compassion. "Why don't God's children have housing? Why isn't there equal access to medicine? Why don't God's children have a living wage in a wealthy country?" Bishop Wright's own questions challenge us to move beyond vertical adoration of God toward horizontal service to others. In a world overwhelmed by division and breaking news alerts, he offers a remedy: remembering who we are and whose we are. Listen in for the full conversation.
Why don't God's children have housing? Why isn't there equal access to medicine? Why don't God's children have a living wage in a wealthy country? Why is there seemingly a tolerance for Palestinians to starve? These gaps are before us all on the macro and they're also before us in the micro. And the invitation here, I think in Jesus's words to us, is if you believe in me, if you trust me, trust that this is the best way to live.
Melissa:Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright. I'm Melissa Rau, your host, and this is a conversation inspired by For Faith, a weekly devotion sent out every Friday. You can find a link to this week's For Faith and a link to subscribe in the episode's description. Now, over the past couple of weeks and this next season, Bishop Wright is framing his devotions and our conversations around the theme We Believe as we make our way through the lectionary. Good morning, bishop.
Bishop Wright:Good morning.
Melissa:This week's devotion in we Believe is based off of Luke, chapter 13, verses 10 through 17. And it's really where you're kind of drawing, lifting up this passage where Jesus heals a crippled woman on the Sabbath and it creates a lot of, you know, commotion among the elders in the church. And so do you just want to kind of frame where you're landing with what we believe and how it ties into the scripture this week.
Bishop Wright:Yeah, I mean what I'm responding to, as I've said in the last couple of weeks, what I'm trying to respond to is to is that we stand at an intersection in our nation, in our world, and people of good faith all over the world are standing at an intersection and many of us are overwhelmed by the division and lack of charity and, you know, sort of increased complications of life, increased volatility of life, and so I think it's a great time to double down on who we say we are, who we say God is and who is our neighbor, because that's where we start, that's the Holy Trinity for us. Who is this wonderful God who has come to us as creator, as redeemer, as sustainer, as Father, son and Holy Spirit, as power, presence and persistence? Who is this God Father, son and Holy Spirit as power, presence and persistence? Who is this God? And therefore, then, who am I? Because I find out who I am because of who God is and in the mind of God and in the heart of God, and then who is my neighbor.
Bishop Wright:So I have a great time to just sort of double down on that and I'm praying that you know in these conversations and these meditations, that this will be life-giving to people, that it'll be a chiropractic adjustment for some of us, a blessed reminder for others, and maybe even inspiring. I'm worried about despair that many people are despairing I'm wondering about. I'm worried about people being paralyzed by being overwhelmed by the world that comes to us in a 24 hour news cycle, uh, and it comes on our devices, uh, as breaking news, it seems, every five minutes. So I think at least, uh, a good chunk of the medicine, for that is remembering who we are and whose we are.
Melissa:Well, you said at the, at the very end, you said and you were just talking about going to the chiropractor, you know which is about alignment. And you say vertical orientation and how we learn how to best parse and practice life on the horizontal plane, which is, you know, putting our faith into action, which Jesus did on the Sabbath, which got him into trouble. So Jesus was really about keeping it real Right.
Bishop Wright:You know, I think what Jesus does is is that Jesus continues to deepen especially religious folks notion of what it means to live with God. And he keeps and this is what gets him in trouble, and he keeps reminding us that as what gets him in trouble. And he keeps reminding us that as soon as we draw a boundary, you know we have failed in trying to adequately articulate who God is. Right now we have to point, we have to tell a story, we have to give experience, we have to do all that for sure. I mean, as a bishop I do all that on a, you know, sort of a daily basis. But I think what we have to be really careful. And this is what Jesus does. He keeps, he shows us our limits, what I call our spiritual imagination limits, and so he heals. And you would think that people would say, yay, the power of God is among us in healing Jesus. Let's throw you a party man, here's your sheet cake. And of course they don't do that. And again and again and again by the way in Scripture that's the pattern right is more afraid and more upset with Jesus and is sort of healing and is well-doing than they are about the infirmity or the lack of food, or all these wonderful things that Jesus seems to enact. And Jesus comes, he does this jazz riff. He does this jazz riff on what it means to be faithful.
Bishop Wright:And the religious people, the rule keepers, people like myself, uh, who have, uh, uh, what we would call, uh, ecclesiastical authority. Um, you know, we get really in, we get really miffed. Um, so yeah, so that's sort of the stage. Um, you know that Jesus was an affront to his religious community. He refused to narrowly understand what life of God meant, and what he does is is that he also prioritizes human flesh in an interesting way. So this woman's healing is more important, right, and the feeding of people later will be more important. And again and again and again, he says that human dignity is important and that God is on the side of human dignity, and so this is what gets him in trouble, ironically, yeah, okay.
Melissa:So I've got a really cool question. I think Last week we were talking about being able to interpret the times and this week you just said something really cool about, like you know well, I actually said let's keep it real, and you were talking about how Jesus kind of you didn't use this word, but it's in the scripture about that religious group feeling a bit shamed for the fact that Jesus raises up some real truths. Like you do one thing, you say it and you believe one thing. But whatever Y'all go read the scripture, I guess, bishop, what I'm wondering is if we can interpret the times, I'm curious how we might live like Jesus did today and kind of just like I'm not saying throw caution to the wind, but are there some, I think, truths or norms that you think a modern day, jesus, in now and time, would say yeah, let's keep it real.
Bishop Wright:Oh yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. I mean I think Jesus would I mentioned this before. I think Jesus would notice that you know the storage industry is booming. I think Jesus would notice that you know the storage industry is booming. I think Jesus would notice that we have a lot of stuff and that you know our stuff has houses and our stuff has to have, you know, increasingly more square footage, and yet there are people who don't have, you know, basics. I think Jesus would.
Bishop Wright:I mean, look what the prophets do and Jesus comes as a prophet from Nazareth. What the prophets do is they're not sort of finger waggers and always gruff and mean. I think, because they love God so much and they love neighbor so much and they love the covenant, the covenant lifestyle, they realize the gaps, and so what we don't want is that when the gaps get named, we start to feel as the kids say these days, we start to feel some type of way right, and then we want to eradicate the irritant and so yeah. So I think Jesus would notice that. I think Jesus would notice that here in Georgia we don't have a living wage, that here in Georgia we don't have a living wage. I think that the promise that if you get up every morning and work real hard, you'll have what you need. I think we realize there's huge holes in that, not only in Georgia but in a lot of places in the country. I think Jesus would notice that we have a housing crisis all over the world, that people are unhoused. I think Jesus would notice that we have a medicine crisis, that you know people we have decided to have medicine for profit rather than medicine for healing.
Bishop Wright:I mean, look, I'm not, I'm you know, I'm just a normal fella who reads, and I think when you spend some time with Jesus and Matthew, mark, luke and John, I think you then begin to start looking at things the way Jesus did, and when you start noticing things that Jesus noticed, then you start to have to go into a deeper conversation. You either sideline these new insights and observations right as a survival strategy so if I don't sideline these things, then they're going to just absolutely live on my shoulder and keep tapping me on the shoulder every day, or you have to sort of sideline these ideas and say, ah, that's the way of the world, or just sort of do that lament that we do sometimes. Ah, what are you going to do? Jesus seems to think that you and I are really important wherever we are, wherever we find ourselves, and that you and I can make a difference, even if it's just incremental, and that it doesn't take, you know, a lot of screaming and shouting, that it takes some sort of quiet commitment to doing what is good. And all the people that I know that I would call saints in my sort of pantheon are people who did that, who have taken a step for righteousness as they could best understand it, and have become these amazing things.
Bishop Wright:We've had Helen Prejean on this podcast, a Catholic nun who changed Catholic teaching about life and about the death penalty. She was just a quiet nun in her 40s and some other nun said you know, you ought to correspond with people on death row, and that's how her journey started. You know, fast forward years ahead, she's changing Catholic teaching the globe over. So I think what Jesus does is say hey, if you go deep on, we believe, and you put human suffering and the dignity of every human being first, and the goodness of God, you're going to end up with some marching orders.
Melissa:Well, that was a great example too. All of the quiet, intimate incremental change is, I think, what you said, the incremental shifting. You know, when I look back and remember all of the passages that I remember reading, jesus was very personal, it was kind of one-to-one. He wasn't going to storm the Colosseum steps and or the you know wherever they gathered to do governance. I forget all the things, right, I'm just. I think there's a lot of people who will, should on people say, if you're not going to that rally and you're not going to that demonstration, well then you're not doing justice work. And I buck that a little bit because Jesus didn't seem to do that, and so I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I just wonder how we hold those two things in tension. How do we create systemic change?
Bishop Wright:Well, look, I think a better approach would be to ask people. You know, not to shame people, but to ask people. You know, I think it's a bit presumptuous to say that you ought to care about my cause as much as I care about my cause. So I think, you know, that's just rude. Let's say, let's start there, but. But I think it's it's, it's fair, it's a fair question to say um to any person who is endeavoring to follow Jesus. Is that so what's on your heart? You know what part of this world has God called you to be a co-creator of healing and of justice and of equity? You know, I think that is fair. I think it is fair with our young people. We have schools in the Diocese of Atlanta, where I serve. I think it's fair to hold with our young people. We have schools in the Diocese of Atlanta where I serve. I think it's fair to ask young people to think about that, to recognize that you know, in terms of the global population, for instance, you are a very small percentage and that Black, white, hispanic, asian, whatever your walk of life is relative to that, you are immensely privileged, right and so. But not to feel shame about all the gifts poured into you, but to now feel like what an opportunity you have, sort of personalize it and ask those individuals and raise this expectation about. Therefore, you know with your hand, your heart, and you know the best help you can render. You know how are you going to make the world better. I think that's fair.
Bishop Wright:I think where we mess it up is is that we can get a bit rude, a bit arrogant, maybe even a bit prideful about what we think we're doing and what other people think they should do. I don't see that in Jesus, but I do think Jesus asks the question you know what are you doing? And I do think you know if we say that we love God, I don't question that, but I do when people say that. But I do want to observe that this horizontal adoration I'm sorry, this vertical adoration, right to be measurable in many ways, needs to have a horizontal sort of component. So you know I've said this before again you know adoration has to become oblation and oblation is just.
Bishop Wright:I pour myself out in these ways not because I'm a good person, right, because I don't even know what that means, what is good. It means that I'm endeavoring to respond to a good God as best I can, and it seems like from scripture and Jesus' teaching that this really good God wants me to pay attention to things like why don't his children, why don't God's children have food enough? Why don't God's children have housing? Why isn't there equal access to medicine? Why don't God's children have a living wage in a wealthy country?
Bishop Wright:Why is there seemingly a tolerance for Palestinians to starve and for us to find in many places, for us to have laryngitis about the matter? Why can't we say that both Israel and Palestine have a right to exist and both Israeli children and Palestinian children deserve safety and education and nutritious food? We can say that. So I think these gaps are before us all on the macro and they're also before us in the micro, and the invitation here, I think in Jesus's words to us, is if you believe in me, if you trust me, then trust that this is the best way to live.
Melissa:Okay, so I guess my final question of the day. It's a bit complicated. In the very last sentence of this passage in the NRSVUE it says when he said this, all his opponents were put to shame. You're highlighting the fact that we believe as a church, right, as a global, as the Jesus followers, and yet Jesus was very much a Hebrew person, he was a Jewish person and he was talking to the religious authority and this scripture calls them opponents. So Bishop, how do we believe together, putting our faith in action, living on that horizontal plane together and minimize the whole idea of the us versus them?
Bishop Wright:Well, look, yeah, you seem to be really invested in that question. I don't think us and them is ever going away, however.
Melissa:Okay.
Bishop Wright:I think we can minimize it. But I think you've got to realize also something about the nature of truth, right? You know, wonderful, bob Marley said the truth is is is not a sin, but it is an offense. And so you know, one of the most difficult questions I've ever had to answer, I mean, your questions to me are are wonderful, but they're, they're a cakewalk in comparison to doing chapel with young kids, right? Uh, because these beautiful little kids they're, they're not as jaded as we are, um, you know, and they just sort of come right at it. And I remember a kid asked me what we were talking about Dr King. And I remember a little kid what we were talking about, dr King. And I remember a little kid, I mean maybe, like I don't know, second grader maybe asked me if Dr King came to talk about nonviolence and brotherly and sisterly love, why did he get killed?
Melissa:Because he came to talk about it, because he came to talk about it, exactly, exactly.
Bishop Wright:So I think what we have to remember is is that this is, this is the best example of what sin is in the world, right, that sin is something ever with us and the church, in the church that opposes, right, the goals and objectives of the one that they say that they gather to worship. I mean, you really you got to stop there a moment and think about that. So the church is no exclusive enclave. It's a collection of people who fall short, led by people who fall short, right, and so we're stumbling forward, and it seems like sometimes we take a step forward and sometimes we take three steps back, and sometimes we get stuck thinking about our own four walls, to the exclusion of the need of the world.
Bishop Wright:When Jesus heals this woman, you know, in violation of the rules of the religious people, he's deciding that I'm going to come down on the side of infirmity wherever I find it Right, and that's going to be beyond the rules and the rule keepers, and so you know, he just lives on that electric wire and he's trying to teach us something, I do believe, and so, yeah, so the church is just a place where we're trying, as sinners, trying to stumble forward, and when the church forgets that she really makes a, she does violence to the gospel, and then she's not the place that I think that Jesus wants the church to be, which is a place where we acknowledge our blindness. We ask for sight, new sight, to be given to us, and we ask for the courage to live out our faith. And so that is who we are at best case scenario and I think that's the call is to say I believe Lord, help my unbelief.
Melissa:Help my unbelief.
Bishop Wright:Well, there's a prayer, exactly lord, I believe, lord, I, I believe with my mind, the mind that you've given me, that you are the center of the cosmos, of all the worlds.
Bishop Wright:I believe that, um. And then the second part is lord, help me to trust that, I mean really trust that in in the world of, of, of, of war and of wall street. Lord, help me to really trust that. And, lord, help me to trust that, starting with my own address, right in tangible ways, and in those places where I want to shrink back, where I'm afraid, where I'm consumed by my own wanting to do my own way. Lord, meet me there and help me, send some angels, some messengers with flesh or with wings, or however it works, who can perhaps charm me through, guide me through, love me, through that stuck place where I find myself. Look, the best line in the meditation, if I do say so myself, is that you know, to think of God and to live for God is to be rescued from the small confines of yourself. And so when we say we believe that we're going to trust God, we are saying that we're going on a stretching journey, and so stretching is not the most comfortable process. Right, but necessary.
Melissa:Amen, bishop, thank you, and thank you, listeners, for listening to For People. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Bishop Rob Wright, or by visiting www. forpeople. digital. Please subscribe, leave a review and we'll be back with you next week.