Grow Up Together with The Rev. Michael White

You can ruin a garden by being too confident, and you can damage a church the same way. The Rev. Michael White joins us for our Summer Shorts series with a story that starts small, weeding a tidy plot, and lands right in the middle of Matthew 13: sometimes what we label a weed is actually the vine that is meant to grow. That simple mistake opens a bigger conversation about Christian community, belonging, and the temptation to do God’s sorting for God.

In this episode, Melissa has a conversation with Michael about why churches struggle with inclusion even when the sign says “all are welcome.” Michael names an uncomfortable truth: a lot of us don't like feeling awkward, so we drift toward people who look familiar, think like us, and fit our preferred style. But The Episcopal Church at its best is a community where whoever shows up gets to be part of the pilgrimage, and that wide embrace can shape us into richer, more grounded people with a deeper “tapestry” of relationships. Listen in for the full conversation. 

The Rev. Michael White currently serves as interim rector of St. Luke's Atlanta. Prior to serving at St. Luke's, Michael served as the 41st rector of Christ Church, Savannah. Founded in 1733, Christ Church is the oldest house of worship in the state of Georgia. Michael graduated from Virginia Theological Seminary in May of 1995 and was ordained that same month. He has a certificate in Non-profit Management from Duke University. He completed the two-year Clergy Leadership Project sponsored by Trinity Wall Street and spent one year as a religious outreach advisor in the U.S. Senate. Michael has also completed a multi-year training offered by the Interim Ministry Network. 

Michael is married to The Rev. Helen Slingluff White. They have two sons, Ethan and Jay. Ethan is beginning his third year of study at Virginia Theological Seminary after serving as a youth minister at St. Stephen’s, Richmond and graduating from The University of the South: Sewanee. Jay is a recent graduate of Princeton University and now lives in Chicago pursuing an acting career.

Transcript

Christian Community As A Gift

The Rev. Michael White 0:00

Church really one of its greatest gifts to us is to be in a community that is open, uh that it is for everyone, and it can truly shape and form who we are. And I think the gift of that too is that it makes us richer people. Uh, it gives us a tapestry of experience and relationships that we can carry into all aspects of life. And I think that really is one of the true gifts of Christian community at its best.

Summer Shorts And Guest Introduction

Melissa 0:40

Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright. I'm Melissa Rau, and this is a conversation inspired by For Faith, a weekly devotion sent out every Friday. You can find a link to this week's For Faith and a link to subscribe in the episode's description. Now, Bishop Wright is away for the month of July for continuing education and Sabbath. So over the next four weeks, we have guest contributors writing his weekly devotion and joining us on Four People for our Summer Shorts series. Today we have joining with us the Reverend Michael White, serving as interim rector of St. Luke's in Atlanta, a seasoned and veteran priest of 31 years. Welcome, Michael.

The Rev. Michael White 1:26

Thank you, Melissa. Great to be with you.

Melissa 1:28

Thanks for joining us. And thanks so much for your devotion that you called Grow Up Together. And it goes like this it's based off of Matthew 13, chapters 24 through 30 and 36 through 43.

The Sweet Potato Vine Mistake

Melissa 1:42

And you say, A few years ago, my wife Helen asked me to do some weeding in her small garden. It looked great. I was proud of how neat and tidy it was. I asked Helen to come see. She said, Oh no, you pulled all of my sweet potato vine. In Matthew 13, the owner is asked, Do you want us to go and gather up the weeds? No. For in gathering the weeds, you would uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. Often in church, in our personal lives, we think we know who is wheat and who is weed. When we let the two grow up together, we are often surprised. That unique person who we assumed a weed brings life and character to our lives and to our churches. Let both grow together until the harvest, and God will sort it out. Thank you, God, that I am not the gardener in the family. Michael, I love this so much. And so I just got to ask you, just for the record, is this a true story?

The Rev. Michael White 2:57

It is.

Why We Try To Sort People

Melissa 3:10

Yeah. So I understand uh really what this is about is about two different types of people. And I think a number of us try to be the decision makers of who's in, who's out, who should be, who should be weeded out, et cetera. And so I'm curious if you have any real life experience of this kind of thing.

The Rev. Michael White 3:30

Well, I think uh for me, church is one of the only communities that anyone that shows up gets to be a part. Uh so often we group ourselves with like people and interests or clubs or whatever it might be, but church really is that place at its best where all are welcome. And whoever shows up will be embraced and loved and be a fellow pilgrim. And uh I grew up in the home of a Pentecostal preacher who grew up in the home of a Pentecostal preacher. Uh, and my brother uh was ordained, and my wife is a priest, and my son is a newly ordained transitional deacon. Uh, my wife's father was a priest, my brother-in-law that uh on my wife's side is a priest. And so I constantly hear and connect with stories of church, and a common thread is that church is made up of interesting characters, uh, that there's always uh a story, there's always someone that brings uh a unique uh value to their uh community just by being there and being being themselves. And I think church is a real gift in that way, and that it puts us with people we would not otherwise engage with in that sense. And it's one of the things I love about St. Luke's and Atlanta being where it is with a feeding program and a counseling center, and it really does bring uh people in and out all through the week uh 24-7. Uh, and I think when we're open to engaging someone that the world around us might consider more of a weed or a nuisance or awkward or whatever word we put on that, I think we can find that it really is a gift that enriches our lives to be in relationship with a wide range of people.

Melissa 5:12

Yeah, you know, I really like your, I think, your insight here because I think just like people when when we try to separate the wheat from the chaff, et cetera, sometimes we're mistaken, just like you were, right? With the potato vines. And so I'm curious if you can talk about how what you believe the human condition might be that drives us or compels us to try to do God's work for God.

The Rev. Michael White 5:41

Oh, I think that, you know, for me, one common thread that I see in a lot of Episcopalians uh uh is that we don't like to feel awkward. Uh sometimes I think that's the most important rubric in the prayer book, that no one in the room wants to feel awkward. Uh, and when we engage in in relationship with people that might be a little different from us or might have a different perspective, or different culture, a different personality, it really does uh sometimes call us uh to be intentional, uh, to stay in this relationship and to make sure we don't fall back on our natural, uh what I would almost call sinful instinct of only wanting to be with people that we can fully understand and only be with people that are very similar to us in their perspectives and worldviews and experiences. And I think church really one of its greatest gifts to us is to be in a community that is open, uh that it is for everyone, and it can truly shape and form who we are. And I think the gift of that too is that it makes us richer people. Uh, it gives us a tapestry of experience and relationships that we can carry into all aspects of life, even not just church, but in every aspect of our being, including our own families and friends and communities outside of church. And I think that really is one of the true gifts of Christian community at its best.

Belonging And The Meaning Of Welcome

Melissa 7:28

So, what do you think this passage speaks of belonging?

The Rev. Michael White 7:36

I I think the the belonging to me in this passage is that it's just not our place to choose and decide who we are going to coexist with. Uh, that if God puts someone in our path and in our, particularly in our church community, uh, unless they're being abusive or destructive in some way, uh, we really are called to make this work. Uh one time I told someone in a neighboring congregation they were having an issue with a particular person, and I said, well, then take down that sign that says all are welcome. Uh, because if you're gonna have a sign out that says all are welcome, you really need to make sure that we're honoring, honoring that. And if we're not honoring that, there really needs to be a big reason other than just taste and temperament and style of being.

Melissa 8:27

Oh my goodness, what a great thing to speak of. You know, I'm interested in how so many church communities will express their welcome. And yet it's really the people coming through the doors who are the judge of whether or not they feel welcomed, right? I'm curious how you think we might flip the script so that we are more about understanding and engaging other people's sense of welcome rather than our idea of what welcoming actually is.

The Rev. Michael White 8:58

I think one framing possibly for that is to recognize that we don't really have permission from God, according to this text from Matthew, to discern who is a weed. That's not our right. Uh that we're uh above our pay grade, if you will, if we're in any way discerning who is a weed, and therefore to cast a net that is wide open uh with the idea that you know God will sort it out. That's not our our role to discern who is a weed among us, uh, and and if we're welcoming people in just almost an extravagant way and welcoming every person the same, however they look, uh whatever sort of shoes they're wearing, uh whatever uh style of existence they bring into the room, if we truly could be welcoming every person equally, not just the person that looks like that's the good church member we want to grab. Uh, but but sometimes I think when we welcome all people equally, that good church member that we think we want to grab sees that we're only talking to them and not to the other visitor. And I think sometimes we wind up damaging ourselves and church growth even uh by thinking we're going to pick and choose the the people to draw.

Melissa 10:21

Yeah, you know, I'm thinking about role, because you said that's not our role. What is our role? Like, let's pretend we're neither wheat or weed. What then is our role?

Our Role Is Shared Hospitality

The Rev. Michael White 10:34

I think uh one of the things that I've often drawn on, and I I got this uh years ago from uh the Reverend Kurt Dunkel, who was in Jacksonville at the time, and he said Episcopalians are often not very good net casters, that the big megachurch can cast nets and catch fish people um in the masses, but uh we're often not good at that when we try. But what we tend to be really good at is line fishing, uh, that one relationship at a time, uh, that one person that we say, uh, you know, I really like you, and I know the people at my church would like you. And I would love for you to come with me to this cookout or this concert or this service, even uh, whatever avenue you think would be best. But I really think that those personal relationships of inviting someone to church are a first step, but then we all have to be ready when someone has taken that step of inviting someone, whoever they may be, we have to all be ready to embrace them, to welcome them, maybe help them with their prayer book, uh, help them know uh where the service music in the hymnal can be found. Uh that hospitality has to be present uh for anyone that walks in the door. And I really think that church uh at its best is a team sport uh and that we're all working together, not just the welcome committee, not just the newcomer committee, not just the greeters and the ushers, but it's a full court press, if you will. Uh everyone uh together is engaged. And I think at its best that can become part of the DNA of a congregation. Uh, that if you want to be part of the cool kids of this church, this is what we do. Uh, we welcome people, we welcome everyone, we embrace everyone. Join, join us in doing this and and be be a part of that. And I think that at its best, that also presents us with a very rich life. Uh our two sons that grew up in the church going to coffee hour and and meeting people, uh, you know, they still tell stories of all the characters that that they talk to at a coffee hour over their life growing up. Uh, and I think uh when we're not in the business of discerning wheat uh in weeds, we can really just find joy in those characters that that show up uh unexpected uh and may wind up sticking around for for years to come.

Nurture Everyone And Be Surprised

Melissa 13:04

I love that. So final question, Michael. I'm curious about what you believe to be uh the gift of nurture.

The Rev. Michael White 13:15

If we're sticking with this parable of letting the the the weeds and the wheat grow up together, I think you're right that there has to be uh that sense of watering, of fertilizing, of and we can't just uh tend and water and fertilize uh the the the wheat. Uh we're also tending, watering, fertilizing the weeds if if you're staying with this story. And uh therefore I do think that the only way the wheat can grow uh is if we're giving it everything we have to nurture and support everyone in the community. Uh and that might mean we take turns supporting one another. Uh and I really think in the gift of church that when we live that sort of faith, uh we can wind up really surprised uh that that character that was a little bit of a turnoff, or we were a little bit worried about that person that started coming to church. What were they going to be like? What sort of impact would they have? And they wind up in some moments the glue that's holding the entire congregation together through that gift of shared love.

Melissa 14:24

Thank goodness for that. Well, thank you so much for your devotion. Thank you for your time and joining us on For People. And listeners, we're so grateful to you for tuning in to For People.

How To Follow And Support

Melissa 14:35

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