The Headline is Jesus with Bishop Sarah K. Fisher

The loudest voices want you to believe the only way forward is to pick a side and dig in. Jesus shows us another way. 

In this episode, Bishop Wright has a conversation with Bishop Sarah Fisher, 9th bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of East Carolina, about a different kind of strength: the courage to stay centered on Jesus when everything around you begs for distraction. Bishop Sarah shares what it feels like to begin a brand-new bishop with 66 worshipping communities. They get honest about labels, social media noise, and why identity can be both something to honor and something that cannot be the headline. The headline, if we’re reading the bible right, is that Jesus is Lord and the Church is called to witness to good news in the 21st century.

They dig into why church matters right now, when people feel worn down by division, war, and purposelessness, and start looking again for meaning and community. From Flannery O’Connor’s “truth makes you odd” to Walter Brueggemann’s “dangerously odd,” they explore how Christian leadership offers an alternative to the status quo without doing harm. They close with a shared anchor verse, Ephesians 3:20, and the invitation to stay astounded by what God can do “infinitely more than we can ask or imagine.” Listen in for the full conversation. 

In no particular order, Bishop Fisher loves Jesus, the Church, organization and congregational development, poetry, Holy Scripture, her family in all of its delightful and quirky forms, thrift stores, singing, practicing and teaching yoga, vegetables, laughter, playing in the kitchen and sharpie markers.

She hopes to love, in as much as it is possible, the way that Jesus loves; to serve the Church with fierce compassion and care; to learn as long as it’s possible. She seeks to see and respond to the needs of the world, specifically with an eye to racial injustice; to love those who the world casts to the margins; to use her voice to heal and never harm.

Bishop Fisher is a native of Athens, Georgia and has served parishes in the Diocese of Chicago and the Diocese of Atlanta. She and her spouse and best beloved, Mandy, who is an Episcopal priest, live in New Bern, where they frequently function as human tennis ball dispensers to their two black labs, Bayton and Maggie.

Transcript

A Countercultural Way To Belong

Bishop Sarah 0:00

In a moment where it feels like division is what comes first, we have this delicious opportunity to say, let's be together in a way that is wholly countercultural from what our world would tell us is important. And I love the the Flannery O'Connor quote uh you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd. I think we are very odd in the way we move through the world in the best way. I think that's why it's one of many reasons why it's good to be church.

Meeting Bishop Sarah Fisher

Bishop Wright 0:39

Hi, everyone. This is Bishop Rob Wright, and this is for people. I am delighted today with our uh with our guest, the right Reverend Sarah K. Fisher, Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of East Carolina. Bishop Sarah is recently uh become a bishop. Uh, she was formerly a priest in the Diocese of Atlanta. She is married to Mandy. Uh, she did her undergraduate training at Agnes Scott College here in Decatur, Georgia. Uh, has our Master of Divinity from New York City, from General Theological Uh Seminary in New York City, and has served in the Diocese of Chicago before serving here uh in Atlanta and then ultimately being elected bishop. Uh and Sarah was just consecrated bishop in an amazing service uh last month in Newburn, uh, East Carolina. So you've got it all figured out by now, right?

Bishop Sarah 1:45

Totally. All things known. Yeah, there are no secrets left. Yeah.

Bishop Wright 1:51

You're the newest bishop we've we've ever had on the call. We've got you fresh here. So, so uh say a little bit about um what you what's on your heart to get get going.

Starting Big Work With Small Steps

Bishop Wright 2:05

Uh how do you how does someone start a job this big? How many parishes, how many worshiping communities?

Bishop Sarah 2:10

66 worshiping communities and um and two college ministries, uh, and so a lot and and a lot of landscape. Um, the from one end of the diocese to the other in your car on a good day is about six hours. So it's a lot of geography, um, a lot of small churches, but also some larger churches. Um and your question is is my question. How do you begin to wrap your arms around um this beautiful and holy and exciting journey that is being a bishop and and how to care for and love these people? And um I'm that's that's my work right now, I think, is figuring out what is the next right thing and what is what is what is the work. Um yeah. And I I have some sense of that. Um, but for me right now, um getting to know the people, getting to know the churches and seeing what they love and what they do is both my work, but it's also my joy. Just it's just delightful. Every church is every church has become my favorite. I walk in, I'm like, this is my favorite place. And then I walk in the next thing, this is my favorite place because each one has its own charisms and gifts, and they love Jesus in such a profound way, um, and such different ways. And it's it's such an honor and privilege to see that embodied in such a powerful way.

Bishop Wright 3:32

Well, uh, privilege is my word as I start my 15th year of doing this wacky work. It's uh it just has come over me in new waves. Uh, what a privilege it is to to stand up in front of people on Sunday and other days of the week and to continue to point to Jesus as the center and as our North Star. Uh it's it's it's an amazing thing how it washes over you. And um, you know, it it makes the challenges bearable. Um, it gives buoyancy in all of the challenges uh to see the people, um, all the lay folks. I mean, certainly the clergy, but but all of the lay folks who who who don't take a paycheck, who who do this because it is it is their where their heart is, um, and that they come and they make these churches church, in fact. They make them stronger with their prayers and with their generosity and with their imagination. So yeah, I I think you're starting right at the right places that who has God called you to serve.

Bishop Sarah 4:34

I had a a real moment that uh made me think of you actually. Um about two weeks ago, uh I was driving to work and and I'm driving a lot more

When Identity Becomes A Distraction

Bishop Sarah 4:45

than I have ever driven before, which I'm told is also part of the work of a bishop. There you go. And there'd been there have been some interesting posts about me on social media, um predictable, but you know, curiosity about me uh and um my work and who I am as a person. Um I'm the first openly gay woman uh bishop in this part of the world in the South. Um as I understand it. And so there have been some posts, and you can imagine some are like, yay, and some are like boo. Um and I I was thinking about that, and I had a moment of absolute clarity, like precise clarity that I really believe probably can only come from the Holy Spirit. Um, but I heard you also in the back of my mind, and it was that all of this fluff around this is distraction from the we're real work that we're called to do as Christians. And that is to love Jesus and love each other and care for the people that the world would rather reject. And in that moment, I got real clarity that my work is to love these churches and to support their work in loving Jesus and loving each other. And and that was really helpful for me in terms of prioritizing what matters.

Bishop Wright 6:00

Well, you know, uh being the first African-American bishop in the deep south, um, we have first in common. Okay. And and I'm immensely proud of who I am and my heritage and uh and how I got here. Um but the way I hold that is that that's not the headline about who I am. Exactly. It is it is it is something I'm I mean, I I take no steps back from who I am. In fact, in fact, um generations who who've gone before me um by their prayers and their witness have created space for me. So I'm immensely proud uh to be continuing, you know, any legacy that I I might be continuing. But I I think the headline uh has got to be, if I if I'm reading my Bible right, I think the headline has got to be uh that Jesus is Lord and that Jesus uses all kinds, and all kinds are privileged to be his witness. Yes. Um yeah. Um and then you know, people people want to distract uh, you know, and obfuscate, uh, and they want to pull you away. And so yeah, I I knew that when you became uh Bishop of East Carolina, I knew that um there would be some who would be excited, others wouldn't be so excited, and and others who who would want to talk about um what the what the new Pope calls pelvic theology uh more than they wanted to talk about what what does it mean to be a witness to Jesus in the 21st century.

Bishop Sarah 7:32

Exactly. Yeah, that that that getting clear that this is one aspect of of my personhood, but far more interesting to me anyway is is what are we what are we proclaiming to the world? Because we've got a world that's starving, it's hungry for good news, it's hungry for community, it's hungry um uh for something other than what we get on the nightly news. And and we have that news to share that that God is good and that neighbor matters. And um and so that to me is where I want my energy and focus to be. Um and if I get any people hearing a story in a new way because of who I am, let the glory be to God. Um but my work is focused on let's tell that love story, that love story of Jesus. And and I keep telling East Carolina whenever I can, we are a living story of the love of Jesus. This is this is our heritage. Um,

Why Church Feels Urgent Now

Bishop Sarah 8:30

let's not squander that. Let's let's throw it around like confetti.

Bishop Wright 8:34

You know, I I have said, and I think I said at your consecration, uh it's a great time actually to be the church. Yeah. 100%. You know, we're reading in the New York Times, we're reading that in the Atlantic, uh, and other places that I'm experiencing as I visit different churches every Sunday, that there's a wave of folks coming back to church. Yes, who who, because of you know, this environment that we're living in, of division of war, of uncertainty, uh, of melees, of of of purposelessness. Uh people are people are looking for meaning, and and young people in particular are finding their way back to these great stories of meaning that you and I get to tell and uh and give exposition to, you know, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in particular. And and and I find that really exciting. You know, uh Dr. King said when it's darkest out, it's the time for the stars to shine. And I I think that's an invitation uh to the church to be the church right now.

Bishop Sarah 9:33

Amen. Uh you know, this this past week we heard uh Matthew's version of uh what it means to be a disciple. And it it's not all easy. I mean, you're gonna be persecuted, there's gonna be betrayals, all these things are gonna happen. Right. And yet, I promise to be with you, and yet you guys are gonna go out, you know, together, hopefully, and and build something that is infinitely more than we can ask or imagine on our own. And in a moment where it feels like division is is the what comes first, we have this delicious opportunity to say, let's be together in a way that is wholly countercultural from what our world would tell us is important. And uh I love the the Flannery O'Connor quote, uh, you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd. I think we are very odd in the way we move through the world in the best way. Um and and and that is why it's good to be church. And yeah, I think that's why it's one of many reasons why it's good to be church.

Bishop Wright 10:55

You know, and Walter Brugerman would add to Flannery O'Connor, uh, he would say, we are called to be not only odd, but dangerously odd. Yes. And the dangerous is really not to do harm, uh, but it is to be enigmatic. It is to uh it is to illuminate contradiction um and offer alternative to status quo. And that's where the danger is, is that we say, we get to say, uh on the church's best days, we get to say, uh, you can live differently. Um uh we don't have to be adversaries. We can remember that we're siblings. Um uh you don't need everything, you don't need to chase significance, you don't need to carry shame. Uh, there's a whole nother way to live. And I I think that's why it it feels like a really great time to get those messages out. It feels like maybe what I'm trying to say is it feels like there's some some people are listening now. And so I I have been saying, as you know, as a priest of the diocese, I've been saying, uh, formerly a priest of the diocese, I've been saying, you know, now's the time to really do your work, read the Bible slow, uh, and really distill for your own self in your own way what Jesus is saying, so that we can get to say that uh with integrity and clarity on Sunday, because I think now there's a listening moment right now.

Bishop Sarah 12:13

There there is that listening moment and um curiosity about how we might engage with with each other in a in a way that means something and that matters. Um I find that again and again. I come back to why why would anybody you you referenced earlier lay people who make churches homes? Why would anybody get their time to do this? They could do 20 million other things, right? And yet they choose to come and make potato salad and um sing in the choir and sometimes clean toilets, you know, but uh uh to do all these things. Um not because they have to, but because it builds something that is more than self and it builds something that creates community that matters. Um I I think it was Nadia Boltz-Weber who when she wrote that book, you know, she watched like 24 hours of religious TV and talked about its gifts and its challenges. But like one of her closing points was the challenge with with television, religious television is they're never gonna bring you a casserole when your mama dies. We live in a place where you're you're gonna get a casserole when your mama dies, and you're gonna get someone who's gonna love you and hold you at the worst and at the best moments of your life. And that's not nothing. It's a whole lot. And then you get this love story of a savior who who loves us just as we are, and far too much to let us stay that way. Um, that we get to become more and more in the

Casseroles, Choir Smiles, And Care

Bishop Sarah 13:50

image of God as we grow together. And then we understand who God is and who humanity is, and this dance that God and humanity have been doing forever in a whole new way. And and that we get to be part of that is just continues to astound me. Like that I get to wake up and be part of this story.

Bishop Wright 14:08

I, you know, that's my wish for your for your new as you embark on this new ministry is to is to stay close to Jesus and to stay astounded. Um, because you know, when people experience us talking, and that is what's we're we're sort of steeped in, um, it it becomes uh invitational to them and it becomes enigmatic, and it gives them, you know, that Wednesday in traffic as they're driving along, that hmm, I wonder what Bishop Sarah is really so excited about. So, so so say a little bit, just a little bit about, you know, so what you're saying about the potato salad, and somebody's gonna uh come and hug you and and and hold you in in the dark hours. Um, you know, God does some amazing stuff through really mundane things. Uh and and so I wonder who did something seemingly mundane in your life to get you here. And I I know I know you don't I don't you don't have enough time to list them all, but I but I wonder what occurs to you. What what mundane things got you to this place?

Bishop Sarah 15:14

Uh yeah, I don't have enough time to tell you all of them, but I can tell you a couple, and and um my my mother, I think, grew up Methodist, um, but church was never a big thing for them. My mom and my dad got married in my grandparents' living room um by a justice of the peace. But I came along and my mom was kind of like, what do I do with this this baby? And and somehow intuitively knew that she wanted her in a church. Um and and she took me to Emmanuel Episcopal Church in Athens, Georgia. Um and it changed everything about my life. Uh it really became uh from the moment I can remember, I don't ever remember life without that place. Um and certainly when my parents divorced and I was older, it became a real refuge for me. It was a place where I was seen. And I I think as I think about growing up in the church, it was a place where I was always seen and valued. And so so I remember, uh I think it was Mrs. Gates was my my teacher, gave us this little accordion style book and it had the Lord's Prayer in it. And I remember being amazed that she gave it to me as a gift that I got to take home. Here's the church giving me this thing. And I just loved it. I mean, I back and forth would would take that. But more than that, I remember every Sunday when we'd go up for communion, the choir would be singing its anthem. And one woman in the choir, I suspect she's since gone on to glory, but she would stop and she would look at me as I walked up and smile at me. And I knew I belonged there. Um little things, but they taught me from before I could articulate words that there was a place of welcome and connection and um home for me. And it was connected to this story that I was a part of that I participated in by being fed at the altar again and again and again. So I yeah, that for me, that place of being brought into that church um by parents who weren't really sure about church. They were really pretty. My father spent his whole life being suspicious of church and loving it at the same time. Um and said they decided we're gonna bring her here. And and it it changed who I am as a person.

Bishop Wright 17:36

Those those are those are such important stories. I uh I hope you'll make sure that you you keep them uh archived and keep them and keep them fresh. Because, you know, those are the stories that we have to tell. Um, because sometimes in the church and in the world, we can think that our our good deeds uh sometimes are are really um, you know, uh, they don't really have legs, that they're they're really sort of meaningless. It's easy to sort of check out of uh doing the good small things um that that mean so much. I mean, I'm sitting here having this conversation with you because of three ushers. When I walked through the door of a church, uh they learned my name, remembered my name, and uh, and when I when I did show up, I was in college, and when I did show up, they remembered my name and they when I was absent, they they they checked for me. I mean, it was just yeah, it was it was a it was a caring for that that really struck me, like um that we were somehow now bound together because we we went to this place, said these prayers together, and I've never lost that sense.

Bishop Sarah 18:47

My my mother chose the Episcopal Church for for to walk into because she had in college uh made a friend named Victor,

The Stories That Make Faith Real

Bishop Sarah 18:55

and they ended up she left college for another college and they lost touch, but she found out Victor had become an Episcopal priest. Um, and so when she was picking churches, she picked the Episcopal Church. And I'll never forget, I was eight years old standing in the kitchen when my mom got the call that Victor had died. He was um unfortunately hit by a truck in New York City and and and died. But he was so important to her. And the night before my graduation from general seminary, my mom was with me um at Baccalaureate, and we're singing the Fos Hileron. And my mom, who's who's not a big churchgoer, starts just poking my shoulder, and I'm like, what? And she starts pointing at the hymnal and I'm like, what? And she says, This song was written by Victor Shram, my victor, who took you to the is the reason I took you to the Episcopal Church. And it was this, it's my favorite setting of the Fos Hileron, and I've been singing it for three years, never even knowing that the reason I was in the Episcopal Church in the first place was the author of that hymn. There's something holy that happens and mystical and beyond our understanding when we are willing to enter a community of faith on faith, and we don't know what's going to happen. We don't know how it's gonna shape us. We we are pretty much assured it will it will change us, um, that we will grow. Um and we will grow, hopefully, and more and more into the image and likeness of of God, reflecting that that hope and that love to the world.

Bishop Wright 20:27

So you, you know, you're you're beginning this ministry, this important ministry in East Carolina to 66 some odd uh worshiping communities and and more. Um and uh, you know, you're sort of gathering yourself and thoughts and meeting the people and sort of uh getting having your antenna up and getting a sense of what the Holy Spirit is already doing and how you can join the Holy Spirit. Um, but what's good about this too is that you don't come tabula rasa, you're an experienced priest. Uh, you've walked into communities and said hello before, you've done this harvesting work before, of you know, harvesting uh what the Holy Spirit is doing and uh how she works. So you you know, you walk into this thing with a lot of experience also. Is there a particular image of Christ uh or particular Bible verse that is walking close with you now at this beginning?

Infinitely More Than We Imagine

Bishop Sarah 21:20

Infinitely more than we could ask or imagine. Yeah, infinitely more. God's power working in us can do infinitely more than we can ask or imagine. Um, that has all that has been um one that has come to me again and again at moments of major transition in my life. And boy, it just it has been with me since since really since the walkabouts. Um and I love that verse in part because it's not about me, it's about God. It's about God. And and and the reminder that you referenced already, how do I keep my eyes open and my heart open for the awe and wonder that God is putting before me every day? Um, and not become hardened to hardened by the world so that I stop seeing it. Because God is always doing infinitely more than we can ask or imagine.

Bishop Wright 22:07

Uh, I had uh Ephesians 3 20 uh um inscribed in my bishop's ring. Um have it on mine too.

Blessing, Gratitude, And Sending

Bishop Wright 22:52

Well, wrapping up here, I mean, I I'm so excited for you. I'm so excited for Mandy, your wife, and I'm excited for the people of East Carolina. Um, and so um you just know that you go with our blessings and you go with our absolute love uh and encouragement uh into this new season of service uh of you know of Christ in uh in this wonderful part of his vineyard.

Bishop Sarah 23:20

Thank you. Thank you. I I'm able to do it because I am a child of the Diocese of Atlanta. I really do believe that it it has so formed and shaped who I am. Um, and Chicago too, but uh home, home will always be where I am, and home will always be Atlanta. And um, I'm so grateful to have this moment to have have this conversation with you and yeah, really appreciate your words. It's a blessing for me as well, friends. That is Bishop Sarah K. Fisher, Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of East Carolina. Sarah, thank you.