Protecting our Vote with Janai Nelson

Threats to voting rights rarely announce themselves as “suppression.” 

In this episode, Bishop Wright has a conversation with Janai Nelson, President and Director-Counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. They discuss the SAVE Act and related proposals that would tighten voter registration. Janai explains why the US already has voter verification systems, why fraud is not the widespread problem it’s sold as, and how new rules can be engineered to shrink the electorate while sounding neutral on paper. 

This conversation goes deeper than policy. It wrestles with what it means to be a patriot in a country still learning how to be a multiracial democracy, and why naming white supremacy matters if we’re serious about building something better. Janai offers a framework that sticks with us: reckon with our past, reimagine what this country can be, and refound it by removing the harmful systems that still weigh us down. If the Voting Rights Act of 1965 is a kind of “birth certificate” for modern American democracy, then the work of growing up is still unfinished and still possible. Listen in for the full conversation.

Janai Nelson is President and Director-Counsel of the Legal Defense Fund (LDF), the nation’s premier civil rights law organization fighting for racial justice and equality. As the institutional thought-leader, she directs the organization’s programmatic strategy and operations. Throughout her career, she has played a pivotal role in numerous landmark legal cases, shaping the fight for civil rights.

Transcript

Reckon With The Past

Janai Nelson 0:00

We need to wrestle with our past. We need to reimagine what this country can be, and then we need to truly refound it because there's so many uh vestiges of harmful policies and practices and systems that continue to weigh us down, and there is an outlook that many wealthy elites in this country, frankly, are weaponizing and leveraging to hoard power and hoard resources.

Bishop Wright 0:40

Hi, everyone. This is Bishop Rob Wright, and this is for people. So glad to welcome a special guest today, uh, Janai Nelson Esquire. Janai, welcome. I'm so glad that you're here. I've been wanting you on the podcast for some time. Everybody, uh, Janai is president and director counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. Janai was named a Fulbright Scholar and has conducted research in Ghana, West Africa. She also has been a law professor at St. John's University School of Law. Janai is especially interested uh in all things uh jurisprudence, but particularly around elections and fair elections. Is that fair to say, Janae?

Janai Nelson 1:28

That's right. All things civil rights and racial justice. But yes, I am a scholar of uh voting rights and election systems.

Bishop Wright 1:37

So so these are busy times, heady days for you for your work right now. What's a what's an average day and week look like for you uh coming out of the rich tradition of the NAACP and uh and its legal work?

Democracy’s Five-Alarm Fire

Janai Nelson 1:50

Yes, uh, as you noted, this is a very busy time. Heyday is not quite the word I would use. It's uh uh it's almost the opposite of that. In many ways, it is quite the nightmare in terms of what's facing our democracy right now. And we are doing work, as you said, in the tradition of uh our original founding organization, the NAACP, but we are a wholly separate organization. We were founded in 1940, 86 years ago, by Thurgood Marshall. And then in 1957, we became a wholly separate organization from the NAACP. And we have the great distinction of being the only other organization that shares that moniker. But today we go by LDF or the Legal Defense Fund, and people know us for the work that we've done on voting rights from the day we were conceived to Brown versus Board and all the work that we're currently doing today.

Bishop Wright 2:49

Yeah, so so what are you working on right now? I mean, I I get that it is a it is an American nightmare for so many people, and and so many people are sleepless over what they uh uh perceive as happening in the democracy. And of course, certainly here in Georgia, uh we've had more than our share around uh conversations about voter suppression, um uh gerrymandering, people in authority uh exerting undue influence or attempting to over our voting procedures. And so so what is your work? I mean, what is what is the work that are you watchdog? Are you actually arguing cases? What is it?

Janai Nelson 3:26

We're doing it all, Rob, we're doing it all. Um there's there's no shortage of fires to put out. And uh we are in the courts, we are in the streets, we are in state houses and legislatures, we are before Congress, we are organizing communities, you name it, we're in it because every part of our democracy is under attack in this moment.

Bishop Wright 3:50

You've been at this work for a while. Is there something unique about this season? I mean, we we have a president that some would say is testing the bounds of presidential authority. Uh is this just uh is this just that, or what else is there?

Janai Nelson 4:06

Yes, I say that we are at a very unique point in our history and in our country's trajectory. I don't think we have a president who's you know just testing the bounds. I think he's already broken so many of them. He's broken norms, he's broken uh the constitution, he's broken the law repeatedly, and courts have told him that, including judges that he nominated and were confirmed by a Senate uh that he, you know, should should uh defer to. It is uh deeply concerning. I think we are at an inflection point, and uh I think this is a a five-alarm fire, to be honest.

Bishop Wright 4:44

Yeah. So what do we do? I mean, we just saw recently that the Supreme Court had something to say, surprised a lot of people, had something to say about the legality of tariffs. So, you know, people are watching this, reading the newspapers every day, watching the pundits on, you know, various uh various news broadcasts. I mean, so can you break it down for us? You're you're immersed in this every day. What are we looking at and what is there to do?

Janai Nelson 5:10

So we're looking at a number of things. Right now, what I think everyone should be trained on is what's happening with the upcoming midterm elections, uh, the ways in which the rules are being manipulated uh in this very moment. We have sent a letter to the U.S. Senate and demanded that they vote no on the Save Act or the Make Elections Great Again Act, all voter suppression bills that are pending before the Senate. And everyone should be engaged in trying to beat those bills back because they will constrain our electorate in very significant ways. You know, what they will do by way of example is make it more difficult to even register to vote. It'll require you to show either a passport or a birth certificate, something that most people do not have at their disposal readily. So there are just things that may seem innocuous, like why don't we step up our voter ID laws that are absolutely unnecessary, first and foremost, but discriminatory more importantly, especially when you think about certain groups like black voters, Latino voters, young voters, disabled voters, uh who don't always have access to the forms of ID that this president and his White House is trying to elevate.

Bishop Wright 6:33

So say more about that because, you know, there there is probably part of the listening audience who wonders, well, why can't just people of great intention uh, you know, just go and get whatever IDs are required? What's what's the problem there?

Janai Nelson 6:47

Yeah, that's such a great question that I get quite often. And one is for us to just dispel the falsehood that we don't already have a voter ID system. There is no place in America where you can just walk into a poll and cast a ballot and you don't have to verify who you are. So let's just dispel that myth off the bat and say that whether it's a signature verification, whether it's a state ID, a driver's license, whether you have to prove that your address is where, you know, what it is by showing a utility bill with your name on it. There are all manner of ID requirements throughout this country. What this particular administration is trying to do, and what and what others have done in the past, and it's been rejected, is to use the most um uh difficult uh forms of ID for people to obtain and ones that they are least likely to possess, like a birth certificate or a passport. There are 146 million Americans who do not have a passport. It can cost up to $130 for you to get a passport. And if you think about the average American, those are significant barriers to the ballot.

Bishop Wright 8:01

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a good point. Because I I think there are people who have that question and are just wondering what it is. And it adds another step, and you're saying an unnecessary step to the process.

Voter Fraud Claims Debunked

Janai Nelson 8:12

That's absolutely right. We should be welcoming people into the electorate. We are a representative democracy. We are supposed to be responding to every voice, every eligible voter, every American who wishes to be part of the system. We should be making it easy for them to be part of the system. The other uh dimension of this that I think often goes unsaid is that not only does every state have some sort of ID requirement or verification requirement, every state has a law that criminalizes election fraud. So there are deterrents all over the place to the idea that people would try to cast a vote or a ballot and they are not actually entitled to do so lawfully.

Bishop Wright 8:57

So say a word about that, because I think the other thing that perhaps needs some dispelling or certainly explanation is there there is this um sort of case that I I listen to that's being made robustly that uh fraud is rampant, voter fraud is rampant, um, election tampering is rampant. And um I I I have not seen very many cases of that being proved as as I'm watching the news. Uh, what am I missing? Or is it rampant or or or is this just a uh is this uh just things that people are saying to sort of in engender fear and uh and maybe some manipulation?

Janai Nelson 9:33

Uh it's absolutely the latter. This is a a very poor solution in search of a problem. Uh there is no there is no such thing as voter fraud, certainly not on any uh magnitude that would turn an election or that has any consequence, right? We are manufacturing fear around our elections so that when a president who doesn't like the fact that he lost in 2020 says the elections are rigged, um, that he has some fake theory to stand on. So this is absolutely not an issue in this country. We actually have free and secure elections until they are tampered with by elected officials. That's really the the something we should actually be proud of and be protecting as opposed to trying to tamper with.

Bishop Wright 10:51

Well, let me let me pause a second and and then ask you a personal question. And here's the personal question. This is a lot of work. This it can't even be despair-inducing this work. Um, it certainly is complex, and the velocity of it has picked up, it seems to me, as I watch it. Um, what how do you sustain yourself? How do you sustain your hope? You personally, uh, you're a mom and a wife and a friend and an auntie and uh to so many. How are you how are you staying okay in all of this?

Janai Nelson 11:29

You know, um, in many ways, I'm blessed to be able to surround myself by really good people. I count you among them, Rob. Um, I have a phenomenal staff of uh mainly young folks who are uh undeterred and bright-eyed and ready to fight. Uh and and I do have a little bit of a natural fighting spirit in myself. So it's uh it is a daunting time, though. I mean, I will not suggest that it's easy. It certainly is not. But um, what else can you do? I'm certainly not someone who's gonna let all of the work of the past 86 years of this storied institution go to go to waste.

Patriotism And A Multiracial Future

Bishop Wright 12:12

Well, you know, your your husband and I both have history degrees. And so I history is always very much in the room uh when I'm talking with you and when I and your and your family, and when I'm even thinking about this. And and I'm just aware in the work that you are doing that it's it's sort of um a legacy piece of work. It is to force the country to actually make good on its founding, the best of its founding ideals and founding words, and and and as a person of color and as a woman of color, um, it is to continue to force uh democracy um to do and include uh all the people that it says aspirationally. And so here you are continuing to fight with and for a country um that, as some people have said, that didn't love you right out of the gate, or people like you. How do you how do you tend to all of that?

Janai Nelson 13:19

You know, I've been thinking about that a lot, especially as there are all these commemorations of the 250th year. Yeah, exactly. Of the Declaration of Independence. Um, and I often talk about having to force America to do better against its will. Um, if we think about the right to vote in particular, it has always been contested. Right. There isn't a moment in our history where we have not been fighting to make voting more accessible, more inclusive, uh, more reflective of the multiracial society that we are. So that sadly is in our DNA, um, as is racism, as is sexism, as is so many other isms. And and it's part of being an American, it's part of being uh a patriot, is to actually work to perfect this country.

Bishop Wright 14:14

You know, I I see you and uh and and and Thurgood Marshall, uh um uh obviously a uh Justice of the Supreme Court and also a member of the Episcopal Church of longstanding. Uh, I think about you and him and so many others and the names we don't know um who fought uh and were patriots and are patriots. I think about Crispus Addicts. The first person killed uh, you know, in the American Revolution was a black man. And yet we never see a picture at the at all the uh patriotic rallies, we never see a picture of Crispus. Where's the statue? Where's the statue? Exactly. I I don't know that there is a Christmas Addicts statue. If somebody's listening and knows about one, please let me know. But but but there is this there is this fight in every generation. And yet some would argue, uh, while this has been a consistent fight, as you pointed out, some would argue that now, given the um the nature of diversity in this country, um, you know, for instance, here in Georgia, uh when black uh and brown live births, that's a measurement, black and brown live births exceeded white live births. Some say that was where all of the shenanigans and the um and the uh uh voter suppression really got going. And so are you connecting those two that this country is becoming increasingly more racially diverse, ethnically diverse, uh religiously diverse, uh, and this sort of movement to manipulate and uh and suppress?

Janai Nelson 15:55

100%. 100%. I think there is a deep-seated and and well-stoked fear that this country is somehow losing its identity without a recognition that its identity has always been multiracial, multi-ethnic. And instead of deciding a future where, as we say at the Legal Defense Fund, power is shared, dignity is sacred, and thriving is the standard for all, many would rather tear this country down, would rather see it implode rather than see it expand to include everyone in it. And I think that is such a selfish choice. I think it's an anti-American choice. Um, and and that is exactly what LDF is fighting against. We think that every time we have won rights and protections for black people, it has inured to the benefit of all people. And it has certainly elevated this country to be closer to its constitutional ideals and its principles.

Bishop Wright 17:03

Can you give me those three again? Those those are that's a beautiful little triplet there again.

Janai Nelson 17:09

Yes, we are seeking to create a multiracial, multi-ethnic democracy where power is shared, dignity is sacred, and thriving is the standard for all.

Bishop Wright 17:24

You know, I I know that um uh there are people who listen who don't come from a faith background and who don't who don't use uh faith language, but that language lines up with the best of any faith tradition. Absolutely. Absolutely, where dignity is sacred and thriving is for everyone.

Name White Supremacy Clearly

Janai Nelson 17:45

Why not? Why not? And when you thrive, I thrive. When you thrive, my children thrive. If they live in a world of thriving people, we are all so much better for it. Why would we want a world with such significant inequality and such stratification that only leads to chaos and violence and uh discord and division? Why not want everyone to have basic uh needs met? Why not have want everyone to have basic rights?

Bishop Wright 18:16

So then, Janai, let me flip it uh on you then. Uh and and and then tell me then why? Why, if it is so, you know, plain and clear that this is good for everybody, why has there been such energy and such resources uh, you know, spent to do the opposite of that? What's your read on that?

Janai Nelson 18:40

Well, I mean, if I'm gonna name it, I think white supremacy just courses through the veins of this country. And uh it it it it really defines so much of our founding, our origins. And again, I don't think that that has to be our destiny. I I think that we've done so much to uh uh depart from from that uh trajectory, but we have to be conscious of it, we have to name it. You know, and I think in this 250th year, we at LDF are saying that we need to reckon with our past. I'll give you a little triplet here. We need to reckon with our past, we need to reimagine what this country can be, and then we need to truly refound it because there's so many uh vestiges of harmful policies and practices and systems that continue to weigh us down. And there is an outlook that many wealthy elites in this country, frankly, are weaponizing and leveraging to hoard power and hoard resources. So this is not a news story, right? Martin Luther King Jr. talked about this before, right? Getting working poor people and the working class together, black, white, and everything in between, to make common cause for economic justice and jobs and freedom, right? This is not new, but it seems to be on steroids in this particular moment uh in this particular administration.

Bishop Wright 20:11

No, that that's exactly right. I and I appreciate that too. You know, and I like to say that a lot of the words we um that we used for ourselves to describe ourselves at the beginning of this republic were largely aspirational, and that we've had to try to grow up and live up uh into those things. Dr. King talked about it. Many, many have talked about it. Um, and we're continuing to grow. I I would say too that you know, when you think about the nations in the world, 250 years may sound impressive to Americans, but it really is, it makes us really sort of an adolescent nation. Or infant. Perhaps, yeah, maybe toddler. We'll meet I'll meet you in the middle, right? And so we are still developing, and that must be some of your hope that drives you is that the die is not cast. Uh uh, we have uh we've had chapters, many, many of where we've missed the mark, but you still have hope for this democracy, yes?

Janai Nelson 21:11

I do, I do. And and I'll say the reason why I say that we are still in our infancy is because we really haven't been a multiracial democracy for any longer than 60 years. The Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965. Before that, you know, everyone could not participate on an equal basis. Before that, black people could be lynched and killed for trying to participate in the political process, for simply casting a ballot. So we are totally 60 years old. To me, the Voting Rights Act is the birth certificate of America and or this America that we know. So we still have so much to do, and so uh many ways we can grow and shape ourselves. And it is uh certainly disheartening that we are facing what I think is very much an existential crisis for. Democracy, but I also see so much possibility for transformation for a great leap forward if we seize this moment and do what is possible uh for this country.

Bishop Wright 22:13

I love that. Uh I I often tell the people uh here uh in Georgia that I get to serve that on the year that I was born, 1964, I could not have been their bishop. And there's always a bit of a gasp uh in the room. I don't know if that's because they think, wow, he's he's old, or they think or they think, wow, in his lifetime. Yeah, you're a long testament. Yeah. Yeah. That um that I would not be able to do the work that I get to do simply because um I had been writ out, written out of those privileges by virtue of uh, you know, the color of my skin and uh the color of my parents. Uh it's mind-boggling. When you but when you say it the way you say it, I I hear hope and I hear opportunity. Um that that, yeah, so maybe I'll start adopting that. That we are it's it's we are infants. Um and that there's opportunity in front of us.

Janai Nelson 23:13

That's right. That's right. Any of us who have raised children, we know that uh you you've gotta be able to see this as a long game. And that you are you are still shaping and molding. You are still shaping and molding, and we are still shaping and molding, and we have to have all hands on deck to do that.

Bishop Wright 23:32

I love it, I love it. Uh, Janai, I uh I knew uh that you were the right person to come and speak with us. Uh, and so I'm so glad to be right. And uh and uh I continue to be glad to call you friend, and I thank God for the work that you're doing on behalf of the better angels of this republic.

Janai Nelson 23:55

Oh, thank you, Rob. It was such a pleasure to be in conversation with you.

Bishop Wright 24:01

This has been Janai Nelson. Thank you.